Podcast 656 – “Damer and McKenna Discuss Covid-19”


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Guest speakers: Bruce Damer and Dennis McKenna


Date this lecture was recorded: April 4, 2020
Bruce Damer and Dennis McKenna engage in a spirited conversation for a tribute to Dennis’ brother, Terence. This conversation was recorded on April 4th, 2020 at an online event held during the early phases of the COVID-19 epidemic. This tribute to Terence marked the 20th anniversary of his death, on April 3, 2000, a day which we have come to call “Terence Day” or perhaps more fun for everyone: “International Boundary Dissolution Day”.

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Posted in Artificial Intelligence, Bruce Damer, Consciousness, Creativity, Culture, Death, Dennis McKenna, Environment, Future, Medicine, Psychedelics, Science & Technology.


  1. I always enjoy hearing the Mckenna perspective, and feel like Dennis is a somewhat subdued version of his brother. Totally agree with his “life intelligence” theory and COVID-19 (or any mutation that comes after it, or any other pandemic for that matter) being a natural mechanism for population control. An analogy that always comes to mind when I think about this is forest fires (as I come from a forestry background). Fires are a natural occurrence that help to clear dead lignous material and aid in the recycling of nutrients, and in the long term are beneficial to an ecosystem, but cause severe death/destruction in an acute sense. Sort of like covid.

    I guess that analogy is especially relevant because mushroom mycelium also help with the decomposition/recycling process that is initiated by a fire.

    Anyways, great podcast guys, really enjoyed listening. Im excited to hear Mckenna on MAPS podcast soon!

  2. It’s great to hear this perspective during times like these. It is somewhat painful to accept the virus as a type of culling from the Earth, to potentially promote or facilitate our species evolution. There is a ring of truth to that idea, after all, we are living through a mass extinction event. At the same time, remaining cautious and aware of how we anthropomorphize.

    There was one aspect of the conversation that I couldn’t digest well, and that is the hope that is given to the Silicon Valley crowd. We have already seen how profitable the pandemic has been for tech companies and their billionaires. And also now seeing how platforms like YouTube and Facebook are censoring views that do no fit the accepted oficial narrative. It sounds like Bruce has some insider scoop on this, and I hope he’s right, but I refuse to sit and wait for the salvation to come from the technocrats.

    Stay healthy and be well my friends 🙂

  3. Wow. This was like conversations within of 2 aspects of my soul. Like conversations with people I trust and can be very real with. I really think there is a way to see the world with the kind of gaian logical hope that Bruce holds forth. All my art comes from that mode. I also cannot let go of a far more cynical sense of how addictive and ruthless power and violence are, and how far the ecological catastrophe has gone and so far continues to go because of that addiction. It isn’t a matter of obvious evil intent , it is a matter of letting the issues he described of mortgage, sending kids to school complying with authorities, with the seeming patriotism of militarism, the ideology of endless growth all conspire to obscure the biospheric damage or see it as a threat to oneself. I am not sure he was really fully respecting Dennis’s apprehensions, points of contention and doubts. Dennis too has contact with a wide range of people at all levels.
    The idea of the thrilling wham-bang salvific ending is certainly possible and makes for pleasing mental drama but has a childish, sci-fi ring to it that reminds me of Terrence’s eschaton. I would like to see a more obvious and evident culture of change that actually begins to reverse the biological damage on large scale.
    I do like what he is saying about the mindset of claiming one’s own power and trusting one’s own intelligence. I am encouraged by how many people I encounter, when enough trust has developed will share that they are trying more actively to communicate with the gaian mind.
    She may even speak human politic; consider the destruction in Port Arthur of the confederate monument the city tried to preserve. A rather nice touch I thought.

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