Podcast 328 – “In Praise of Ayahuasca”


Guest speaker: Graham Hancock

Graham Hancock on London RealPROGRAM NOTES:

[NOTE: All quotations are by Graham Hancock.]

“There are all kinds of ways to challenge ourselves. Some people do it by climbing a mountain or scuba diving. The most profound and challenging ordeals is to drink Ayahuasca. It is in a way the ultimate adventure.”

“I think that ayahuasca requires us to confront the truth about ourselves. That’s one of the fundamental, universal experiences of anybody who has drunk the sacred visionary brew of the Amazon.”

“All across the world we have a venal class of dishonest, self-serving bureaucrats who are using the power we give them to impose themselves upon us.”

“You have to understand that we’ve had more than 40 years now of massively financed propaganda called the ‘War on Drugs’.”

“Do we as adults have the right to make decisions about what we put in our own bodies and what we experience with our own consciousness without reference to the powers of the state, or must we seek permission from the state in order to explore our own consciousness?”

“I don’t think it’s an accident that I started smoking cannabis at round about the time I started researching “The Sign of the Seal”, which is the first book I wrote on a historical mystery. And I don’t believe I would have actually written that book if I hadn’t had this nudge from this curious plant ally called cannabis.”

“What ayahuasca does is to allow us to make accessible to our senses areas of reality that are normally off limits to us. I believe that those are real, not fiction of the brain. What the shamans call ‘the spirit world’, what quantum physicists might call parallel universes or parallel dimensions, I think they exist.”

“The model I use is that the brain is a receiver, or a transceiver, of consciousness rather than a generator of consciousness. And that as such, as a transceiver, the receiver wavelength of consciousness may be adjusted. And I think that’s what happens with ayahuasca, and I think that we gain access to other levels of reality and the intelligences that inhabit those other levels of reality, which, for some reason, are interested in the human race.”

“We ought to be able, in a responsible society, as responsible adults, to gain good information. If we want to experiment with our consciousness we should be able to gain good and reliable information easily. Instead it’s very difficult. We have to go underground. We have to stay out of the mainstream if we want to learn about ayahuasca.” And, “What ayahuasca does is to allow us to make accessible to our senses areas of reality that are normally off limits to us. I believe that those are real, not fiction of the brain. What the shamans call ‘the spirit world’, what quantum physicists might call parallel universes or parallel dimensions, I think they exist.”


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Graham Hancock’s Official Web Site

Graham Hancock’s YouTube Channel

The Joe Rogan Experience with Graham Hancock

Supernatural: Meetings with the Ancient Teachers of Mankind
By Graham Hancock

More Books by Graham Hancock

Posted in Ayahuasca, Books, Cannabis, Culture, DMT, Graham Hancock, Psychedelics, Shamanism.


  1. Great interview indeed, and thank you very much btw for all those other podcasts in your series, Lorenzo. Great findings in there. Keep that thing rolling.

    Is there any way to get in touch with you?
    Cheers from Germany

  2. Man! Did any one else check out that link on the kid who died in the Amazon? It is my concern that this will be one more example of a sacred medicine being demonized by greed and reckless behavior. I’ve yet to know the vine, and will never engage her unless it is obviously the right time. As everyone here seems to know, we must respect these plants especially if we are to establish precedent for their respectable use.

    Graham never fails to impress! What a mind.

  3. That was one of my favourite Salons ever! What an amazing interview! Really going to have to read his books now. His latest book sounds fascinating!

  4. Great show, and great comments too!

    I deal with so many different areas and forums (religious to scientific) online; and there is something about OUR ‘Tribe’ that seems so much more mature, civil and thoughtful when dealing with each other. I really admire and I am drawn to it.

    We are unorganized (the psychedelic community), and unaffiliated with any organization…yet, we seem to have some unity… It reminds me of your book (the Genesis Generation), Lorenzo…that backwoods festival…it just *happened*.

    I think maybe Hancock (being a very intelligent and insightful man) must also see that there is more real truth (whatever that really is?) in the free and opened-minded field of psychedelics. And of course experiencing them for himself, he knows he can no longer hide that truth from the public. Or he would be a hypocrite. This is what EACH of us has had to endure in changing our minds–taking our minds back.

    Thus, it – Hancock speaking about Ayahuasca on the Salon – is a big and positive change for him, and a good metaphor for the apparent transformation in social thought right now, globally. People are coming around.

    I just love being alive at this time in history! I appreciate all your work in making that history too! And I await the next episode with great anticipation.

    Peace and Light

  5. @Babaluma

    Sounds like a good idea, I would definately contact them and see how you feel about them if I were you.
    I guess I could find rituals in the Netherlands, but it seems to me that a lot of people are trying to make a lot of money with it.
    There are even healing centers in the Netherlands that say they work with Ayahuasca, but realy work with syrian rue (instead of Caapi), probably because it’s cheaper. Not to say that syrian rue isn’t a powerfull teacher…
    Yes I know the Aya forums, and I know that lots of members there have no problems with drinking Ayahuasca at home, alone or with a guide.

  6. Okay, well as Lorenzo said better check around… I haven’t done this “brew” and although I am (was) kind of interested, I came upon this story of late: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202459/Kyle-Joseph-Nolan-death-Peruvian-shaman-confesses-buried-body-U-S-teen-spiritual-retreat.html

    You all read it? I know the kid was left alone & not in the “circle” but I wonder if being in the “circle” would have helped him. PLUS, I see a LOT of pictures of kids doing this “brew”. I think they need to stick w/mushrooms. And throwing up to get a look inside the “other world”….. I don’t know. I have a question. Have or has ANYONE asked this creature (from the other world) anything where information was provided that proves it is more than a personal head trip? Like something about the future that came to pass? You can smoke grass & get “enlightened”. While on the subject, this info that grass & Ayahuasca are jealous females… that just doesn’t make any sense at all. A woman that knows who she is (and is confident) is no more jealous of another amazing woman. They both are just different. Both amazing. Jealous would not be a word I think that would fit. They might not zig because the other zags but, it doesn’t mean someone is jealous (just different lessons). *end of transmission*

  7. @Charly:

    There’s a group who facilitate sessions here in Italy (Rome), they always bring a real shamen/curandero from South America to guide the session. Not joined one yet, but am contemplating it.

    Also, there’s a great forum dedicated to Aya here:


    It’s peopled by some very wise and mature people, many from Europe. There are many there who agree that it should only be done in a guided group ceremony by a professional worker of the spirit realms, but there are also many there who believe it can be done successfully alone at home. I’d say spend some time researching there, before you decide upon a definite course of action!

  8. Thanks for your comment Lorenzo, I realy appreciate it.

    I posted the comments on the growreport under ‘shamanic plants’ to see how other members feel about it.

  9. Graham is an excellent speaker, and this podcast convinced me to buy his book!
    However, I don’t understand why people always emphasize the importance of a shaman in the context of Ayahuasca.
    Graham does not advise people to buy the ingredients of internet to experience the brew at home.
    In my opinion, the safety of your own home is the perfect set for a journey, safer than going to peru to drink with a shaman you don’t know at all.
    I do agree that you need a sitter, when possible an experienced sitter, to support you in crisis.
    Not everyone has the ways to buy a ticket to south america to participate in an ayahuasca journey, especially when you live in europe, like I do.
    Should ayahuasca be a privilege to the wealthy?
    And why is nobody emphasizing the importance of a Shaman, or a south american setting when we talk about mushrooms for instance? From what I read, a high dose of mushrooms can be as intense as an ayahuasca session (I never took ayahuasca, but I’m considering doing it at home, with guidance of my wife).
    It would be nice if someone can comment on this.
    Greetings from Germany 🙂

    [COMMENT by Lorenzo: In fact, I have commented many times about the difference between an ayahuasca experience and other psychedelics such as LSD and mushrooms. There is a HUGE difference in these experiences. Ayahuasca rituals go back for thousands of years and for good reason. Disregard this advice at your own peril. . . . Plus, there are quite a few ayahuasceros from Peru who make regular trips to the Continent I am told. Ask around, get recommendations, and you will be able to save yourself the expense of going to South America.]

  10. Wow, one of the most fascinating talks ever in the salon, thanks Lorenzo for bringing it to our attention!

    I especially liked what Graham hat to tell us about the corruption of language and governmental propaganda.
    The government literally tries to program our reality tunnels


    our task is to become aware of this, and reprogram ourselves, or better, totally DEprogram us. Robert Anton Wilson describes how this can be done in his important work “Prometheus Rising”.

    Aloha from Switzerland!

  11. Fantastic interview Lorenzo, this has to be one of the best things you’ve ever podcast! Glad Graham is fully out of the Ayahuasca closet now! So much wisdom, positivity, and good advice in this talk, it’s pretty unbelievable. Keep up the great work!

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