Guest speaker: Dr. Timothy Leary
[NOTE: All quotes below are by Dr. Timothy Leary.]
“Psychedelic drugs are to the human mind today what the discovery of the microscope was to medicine and biological science three or four hundred years ago. Psychedelic drugs expand and speed up consciousness. They are going to bring about a tremendous change in our society, in our view of man and our way of life in the future.”
“When you take LSD you do go on a trip. It’s a voyage. It’s the most ancient voyage that man has ever known, the one beyond your mind and your current tribal situation into the incredible possibilities which lie inside. So it’s a fair statement to say an LSD voyage is a trip.”
“A chemical age is going to have a chemical sacrament.”
“Every great breakthrough in religion and science has always involved a new method of bringing into consciousness what you couldn’t see before, the telescope, the microscope. And you remember, the fellow that developed the telescope back in Florence a few hundred years ago got into the same sort of trouble with society that we’re in today. Any new instrument which opens up consciousness threatens the establishment.”
“It takes a long time to learn to use LSD. It’s no shortcut. It’s no instant mysticism. It’s no instant psychoanalysis. It’s tough, hard work.”
“Stay away from it unless you’re willing to take LSD in a state of grace for serious and important purposes.”
PCs – Right click, select option
Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option
Comments from original blog page: http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/?p=264
I’m going to ramble here because Leary brought back such memories. I don’t know what others think, but when I took a massive Osley LSD dose in 1966, me and my friends were affected about the same as if Jesus, Buddha and all the rest had been meeting us face to face in say our bathrooms and producing golden light teaching tablets or something. The moment had arisen. It was the end of time and more. What can you say but the revelations were so profound we were all transformed and all the straight people like our parents sounded like these cheeseheads in this podcast. And it was so new that almost noone knew about it. You could only talk among yourselves because anyone else couldn’t possibly understand. And we knew it was the changing of everything in the world. We were so united and felt so fortunate in a very emotional way to have been given such a momentus gift. It felt like celebration and revolution and the second or first coming of The Suchness. And all a secret. I took off to live in the Haight in San Francisco in a commune and the whole 9 yards. It was perfect. And I have to admit that 40 years later now that I feel no less a thrill at what these sacred medicines have revealed and the same bliss that we are only at the beginning even now. How lucky can a man be to be given such an enormous gift. Who can I thank here?
You can’t thank me, llama2, as I am one of those that Lorenzo mentioned… the ones that weren’t even alive at the time of the Leary interview. From my perspective, this interview was bizarrely surreal, I just couldn’t believe the attitude of the interviewer (and I use that term loosely, he had his own agenda and ill-informed message) and audience. It was like a bad science fiction movie. And, so, from the perspective of one that was not around to experience that birth of an era, firsthand, I found this to be most enlightening and interesting. I suppose I had unknowingly taken the developments we’ve made for granted, as I haven’t really known it any other way. Clearly, the effects of psychedelics had trickled down to me through other people’s works (Fantasia and the Beatles’ music, for example) before I was ever exposed to any entheogens… like a primer of sorts.
I found this one to be very interesting, it’s help giving me a more accurate perspective of where we came from. Thank you!
I want to add a rarely-meantioned factual note which is that when LSD arrived and was absolutely unknown before, it arrived in a multi mic form, my first was the Owsley purple pill out of Oakland, CA and it was rated a 3200 mics. 5 years ago I think the circulating was 75-150 mics. So what people got hit with back then was like if your first contact with anything other than alcohol was now an upgrade to syrian rue and spice (3-4 full white-smoke hits). And you peaked that way (meaning you didn’t have a body or a you for 3 hours), then 5 hours of you dual-ated into light manifestations, then 3 hours of re-entry. Wears a person out. Or, if you were so unfortunate to begin without preparation and attention to set and setting, you could resist all that light by grasping at your tattered ego and suffering 3rd bardo hellish nightmares for 8 hours. We kept reminding each other, lest we forget, PREPARATION, SET & SETTING.
lama, although i must admit, I never lived through the sixties.. but i believe that LSD has always been available in “multi mic” (Mulitple microgram?) doses.. after all, think about it, one microgram would scarcley be enough to dose a fruitfly. I also was unaware that syrian rue and “spice” could cause a peak psychedelic experience after “3 to 4 white-smoke hits”.. we have much to learn from you. 😉
sorry, I should have made myself more clear, please forgive me, my chromosomes must still be dancing. By multi mic LSD I meant to refer to the 800-3200 mic LSD tab, blotter, windowpane, etc, that was the norm in the early years. By the late 70’s or so the average LSD came in mainly 400 mics- as an average dose, and then it went to eventually the 75-150 mic dose that was the norm and provided an easy transition to the replacement party drug, Ecstasy. Rumors abounded about why the decrease in mics, were the Feds themselves producing in order to control? Was it just wise to bring the mics down so that there were less freakouts? No one really knows.
The attempted point being, that back in the early days, the days when this interview with Leary was given, when your best friend said you really, really had to try this LSD stuff, you could only anticipate based on what were the only other consciousness-altering substances that you had known, coffee, alcohol, mild muscle relaxors. So someting along that line is what you were expecting; and your friends saying that it was really, really intense meant that it was probably like when they exaggerated about their sexual esploits that were really, really intense also. BUT, when your train left the station, that fatefull night in your dorm room, you could quickly see that this was not going to be Kansas, or even Kansas with a few beers. This was: dorm room evaporating and to the left and right vast sand dunes forever, under me was a golden barge floating down a wide river with strange Egyptian temples on the banks. …..Or, had to piss, but in the bathroom I couldn’t find my penis and when I pulled up my shirt, I had the most perfect set of female breasts ever. I stayed in the bathroom for quite a while just getting to know myself. What about my face, so in the mirror I looked. Many people had said “don’t look in the mirror”, how could you help yourself after they said that. And there you were, pretty much like before, wait, no, your face was changing…….., into your…… dad’s, then your mom’s face, then the face of a 3 year-old, then a 4, 5,6,….80,90-year old face, then the skull. Then the SKULL! ……Or maybe that all came after 2 hours of: no room, no you, just a clear white light that was you and everything, and out of that light came a silent knowledge that your consciousness in its own voidness, like a clear and cloudless sky, not thought, was an immutable light that had no birth nor death. Knowing this was enough. And beyond the light of life: the void, shining, blissful, diamond consciousness.
I wanted to point this all out because I was afraid that younger people must think when they hear this Leary interview, that what LSD was, was what many young people now would refer to as the 125 mic LSD that was all they had ever known. Big difference. So I used the syrian rue seed + DMT big hit as a current reference point. But remember, if you have had the Rueified Demetry and you felt the intensity of that, imagine that intensity going on for 5 hours. Wears a fella out! DMT is illegal everywhere in the world except Brazil or if you are a member of 2 Brazilian/Christian churches and are in the USA. I live in Brazil. DMT is illegal in the USA. Having said that and before I go on, I want to make this very,very clear:
***DO NOT INGEST THE SYRIAN RUE SEED UNLESS YOU HAVE MADE YOURSELF UNFAULTINGLY AWARE OF THE POSSIBLE FATAL DANGERS OF DOING SO. ALL SSRI ANTI-DEPRESSANTS (PROZAC, ZOLOFT, PAXIL, ETC.) AND TRICYCLIC ANTI-DEPRESSANTS PLUS MANY FERMENTED FOOD PRODUCTS (LIKE SOME CHEEZES AND WINES) MUST BE DISCONTINUED 4 WEEKS BEFORE USING THE SYRIAN RUE SEED (MAOI) TO PREVENT THE FATAL DANGERS. SEE EROWID.COM (IT’S LIKE OUR BIBLE).****
Syrian Rue Seed and DMT is a mock ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is any combination of an MAOI-containing plant part + a DMT-containing plant part. MAO is naturally found mainly in our gut, and it immediately neutralizes injested DMT. That’s why we have to smoke, instead of eating it. Syrian Rue seed is an MAO Inhibitor (MAOI). An MAOI will for a short time stop the neutralization of DMT and thereby extend the time the DMT is allowed to circulate in your blood and work it’s magic. So the Syrian Rue seed + DMT becomes a pharmalogical ayhuasca equivalent: “pharmahuasca”. DMT will provide a rocket breakthrough for about 15 minutes, and so just when you had said hello, it was time to go. Syrian Rue seed taken 30 minutes before the DMT will increase that prime time-away-from-home greatly; one has time to like talk with the machine-elves, meet the family, go over a few lessons, etc. before it’s time to return home. Now, sorry, I got to go capital again:
DO NOT LISTEN TO WHAT I SAY. WHAT IF I’M WRONG! DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!! WEBSITES LIKE EROWID.COM, DMT-TRIBE.NET, DMT NEXUS, ETC. ARE THERE FOR YOU. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DOING YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!! THIS IS VERY SERIOUS SHIT.
As an old guy, I’m just delighted to find that my street-knowledge from the early 60’s and on is of historical value (to offset these ever-more creaky joints, confounding hair loss and then that unwanted new hair-puberty-event sprouting out of my ears and eyebrows, and I don’t even want to think about what’s next). I’m just jokin’ kids, life is very good, older is different, but for me, very, very good.
Peace, brothers and sister, bliss
goddess love you for sharing… teary eyed gratitude.
i am going to try reading timothy’s version of book of the dead onto casettes to enter that state
you described experiencing
lovely visit to the Jewel Tree of Tibet with bob thurman.
Namu Kanzeon Buttsu.
ps bless you for yelling all the safety too!
the jerks where i don’t work once told me i was TOO safety-conscious in teaching chemistry. yeah, right, pregnant 18-yr olds and 8M sodium hydroxide- and they had to be told not to wear sandals and low-cut tops?
drlaura, heart-felt thanks for your appeciation
a word of caution concerning using the book of the dead out of a tape recorder instead of the recommended guide. i tried this once myseld and nearly lost my life. the lsd or whichever used, is only a trigger into the book of the dead. to compare a very large dose of lsd by itself with that same or lower dose used with the book of the dead is like comparing a match being lit with a nuclear detonation. HEED MY WORDS.
i highly recommend using a guide. this is how the book was written. although leary modernizes the language, the changes are minimal, there are many Bardo Thodol translations, you will note their similarity. this book was written as to be read to another. this manuscript was written 1500 years ago, but quickly hidden as a terma (the buddhist method of hiding/burying a text and presaging its rediscovery). the Bardo Thodol was dug up 900 years later in the exact place and time as was predicted. These are extremely sacred words. as you well know there are many locked sacred doors where the price of a false entry can be one’s sanity or life.
preparation is the key, for with preparation comes recognition. pay attention to set and setting. employ a guide. you and your guide should become very familiar with the Manual, the sacred text and the commentary on the text are vital. although employing a guide that has taken this journey hirself is preferred, it in not necessary. choose carefully, the attitude and behavior of the guide are critical factors. the gude possesses enormous power to shape the experience. with the cognitive mind suspended, the subject is in a heightened state of suggestibility, the guide can move consciousness with the slightest gesture or reaction. the key issue here is the guide’s ability to turn off hir own ego and social games – in particular, to muffle hir own power needs and hir fears. to be there relaxed, solid, accepting, secure. the Tao wisdom of creative quietism. to sense all and do nothing except to let the subject know of hir wise presence.
one can go higher because of a guide. the guide is the ground control in the airport tower. always there to receive messages and queries from the high-flying aircraft. always ready to help navigate their course, to help them reach their destination. I have felt like a kite, and when the thought of the kite without a string passes through my mind, I open my eyes and see that way, way down there is my guide with the string in hir hand. very reassuring, then I can let go and soar to the next level.
remember the entheogens that trigger the entry into the book of the dead are ego-smashers: lsd and hir sisters. these are very different from the dmt family and salvia, which are not ego smashers. these ego-smashers will render you an infant; infants should not be left alone. HEED MY WORDS.
drlaura, I know that you use the I Ching; are you familiar with terrance and dennis mckenna’s book, “The Invisible Landscape: Mind Hallucinogens and the I Ching”? I would recommend it. and after your journey into the book of the dead you will want to imcibe the extremely potent “Luminous Emptiness” by Franchesca Fremantle for sure, for sure.
Please allow me to submit another of T. Learys takes on Lao Tse’s, “Tao Te Ching” (Way of Life):
Walk Carefully When You Are Among
“holy men” and
Distract from the internal
Addicts people to the contrived
And the external
Be respectful and compassionate
But walk carefully when you are among-
women with beautiful faces
artists and writers
men who want to help you
men who want you to help them
Christians and Jews
For such as these
However well meaning
Place you on their chessboard
Addict you to their externals
Distract you from the
The lesson of the TAO is more likely to be found among-
men who build their own homes
parents who learn from their children
men who look at sunsets
men who walk in the woods
men who sit by the fire
men who make bread
couples who have been in love for years
smiling men with bad reputations
When you proceed with the book, whether your guide is new or not, you might want to email me a few days before and I could give you my telephone number; so if you needed a second council during your journey, it would be there. Email wouldn’t work because you would need to hear the sound of my voice.
If you’re an experienced meditator, you could work within the same cycle of Termas within which is the Bardo Thos-grol (we just switched languages) = The Tibetan Book of the Dead or”Liberation through Hearing in the Intermediate State” using meditation instead of a psychedelic trigger. That would be the text, “Rig-pa ngo-sprod-gcer-mthong rand-grol” which is “Self-Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness, being a Direct Introduction to the State of Intrinsic Awareness”. Some refer to it as “The Ocean of Certainty” also. My favorite book that contains the actual text to be used in both Tibetan and English and the best commentary money can buy is “Self-liberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness” translation by John Myrdhin Reynolds; Amazon has it.
To be more exact, this Terrma cycle was hidden in the 8th century and rediscovered in the 14th, and transmitted by that all-time #1 Best Seller, Padmasambhava. Who could ask for more?
llama.. thanks for clearing everything up, i was a bit confused by your earlier post but this is no longer the case. I can relate somewhat to the feeling of being shocked at the intensity of a drug because, even never having taken LSD myself, I did have the same shock on my first exposure to concentrated salvia extract.. when i first encountered this substance i was expecting another disappointing “legal high” which normally consists of some harsh bad tasting smoke, maybe a few seconds of slight dizziness or relaxation or whatever, then maybe a cough or a headache for an hour or two.. but, what I got after a single inhalation was a complete disintegration of consensus reality along with uncontrollable hallucinations, as well as the “ego death” the woman mentioned in the recording… and as unpleasant as all that was.. i consider it was also incredibly enlightening and immeasurably valuable to be able to experience a few moments outside the everyday world my mind keeps me rooted in.. many thanks and much respect to you for satisfying my curiosity.
· 116 weeks ago
amic, I had to smile when you mentioned “another disappointing “legal high”. I remembered 40 years ago when after hearing that banana peals would get one high. Believing, we bought most of the bananas at our market and spent the day pealing and slowly baking the skins. None of us ever got anything but a headache from trying to smoke those peals.
Erowid.com has reliable information about everything concerning highs. The police and courts rely on their data. Most of us here in these bloggs contribute money each year to keep Erowid going; you really can trust their information.
Blessings to you in your search towards information and enlightenment.
I do not think the Episcopalian priest was twisted at all, Lorenzo – a bit old fashioned yes, but some caution is necessary, and he was scared by what he had seen happen to a man. I thought he sounded fairly reasonable in his explanation of how different cultures have experienced the divine (even that admission is quite liberal for some Christians) and how LSD, used by the undisciplined, without any knowledge of the cultural background, could be lead one astray. He is right to be worried – LSD has led to some pretty crappy philosophy and choices on the part of many. But of course Leary does make up for this in some ways, by emphasizing that it takes a lot of work and courage to really engage with what LSD does.
The priest’s example, of a man abandoning his family, losing his job, and preaching about God as if that is all he needs – well, yes, it’s bad for society in a status-quo sort of way, but frankly it sounds like what happened to the disciples in the New Testament. As Jesus apparently said, “Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself”
His comments about Buddhism are a bit of an ignorant generalization, but the same sort of generalization could be made about Christianity, which has its fatalist, monk-oriented versions as well.
And his comment on the environment, well, it is true we are not in total control, but I don’t think that’s what he meant. Looking at the twentieth century, I think it is fair to say that we have indeed gained a great ability to manipulate the environment to our advantage, and this has been helpful for making more people healthier and fed. At the same time it has led to a great deal of arrogance and pain for people- but just the same, the man is right to praise it. There is much we have to work on, but compared to, for example, the writers of the Bible, we very much do control the environment. Just not as much as some would like to believe…
Anyway, that is enough from me for now.
Thank you so much for this podcast, Lorenzo. I got so much insight from it. Instead of being lectured at, it was great to learn for myself by reading between the lines of popular culture at that time, what a history lesson!
Credit to Dr. Leary for keeping cool throughout, despite the best efforts of the antagonists trying to wind him up. His sentiments chime with current philosophies, yet his detractors seem to come from a familiar but very defunct past.
40 years can seem so very short but so very long time!
It was difficult to listen to the whole radio interview, difficult to be transported back to those cruel times. It had somehow blocked out how bad those times were, and this “interviewer” epitomises the bullying arrogance of those self-righteous bigots who held all the power. No wonder a revolution of sorts was brewing. Anybody with a sense of humanity, a sense of freedom and humility was compelled to challenge the madness. Timothy Leary is the hero of the piece. While I understand the sad fallout of Leary’s extremism he was a true pioneer. It takes courage to stand up to the “establishment” like that. Thank you for this painful podcast, it is truly an important piece of history.
For a little insider information on what llama2 said:
amic, I had to smile when you mentioned “another disappointing “legal high”. I remembered 40 years ago when after hearing that banana peals would get one high.
The source of that rumor began in the kitchen of Country Joe (of “and the Fish” fame). It was Joe’s wife who first suggested that as a joke. Much to her surprise, it was a meme that caught on. 🙂
Thanks for the Mrs. Country Joe info. Now I have to wonder if she had invested in Banana Futures in the market; she would have made a lot of money. Maybe that’s why Country Joe faded away, had just too much of the green stuff from his wife’s banana future’s market manipulations. Just Jokin’ when I ought to be tokin’, I guess.
Another great Leary talk. Boy did he demonstrate some serious courage to stand up for our virgin psychedelic community like he did. Putting everything on the line for us and stood up for what he believed in. It’s a real shame his movement wasn’t successful with the founding of the LSD church. I bet those services were the most genuine & effective in the history of organized Western religion. Imagine how beautiful the world would be today, if it would have been permitted to exist.
Thanks again Lorenzo!
EROCx1, I concur with you; it’s good to hear someone say this. Although I know most will disagree with me, I too want to add: although Tim may have made some mistakes, because only hindsight is 20/20, what Tim did do was extremely courageous, extremely. Even before I had a pot to piss in, I felt honored to contribute to such a great man, who at the time was put in jail for uncovering these relvelations. Tim’s, Richard’s and Ralph’s work with Taoist and Buddhist manuscripts used in conjuction with LSD is, in my oppinion, the greatest leap forward made by mankind to date. Few of us have been lucky enough to participate in these great combinations of ancient teachings with potent entheogens; and the government shut all this progess down with a large boot stomp. I predict, in the near future that these combinations with come back, first in legal scientific studies, and later as a world spiritual revolution. The one that will save the planet. Call me crazy, but I put my money where my mouth is. I’m fortunate to be able to work within a funding group, where I have last say where the funds go; and currently 50% is allocated towards research into these areas. If anyone else wishes to participate in this endeavor, google MAPS and Strassman’s latest projects with Cottenwood Research Foundation. Peace, and a sane planet for the future of our children’s children. Blessed be.
If you’re interested, this will make it easier,Cottonwood Research Foundation is Rick’s latest endeavor.
Excerpt from an email from Strassman:
“The work I performed during the early-1990’s at the University of New Mexico with DMT, a naturally occurring psychoactive, was the first new clinical research with these compounds in the US in two decades. Our founding of Cottonwood is intended to help revitalize the lagging pace of American research with this and other classical psychoactive compounds since my studies were interrupted in 1995.
We have already started our first research project. Our vice-president Dr. Steven Barker at Louisiana State University is developing a new ultra-sensitive method of measuring naturally occurring DMT and related compounds in the body. By doing so, we will be able to compare normal levels with those found in naturally occurring highly altered states and clinical conditions. We also held our inaugural fund-raiser in Taos, in which Beatriz Labate, a noted Brazilian anthropologist, presented her field research concerning the burgeoning Brazilian ayahuasca religions movement.
Our most enduring legacy will be the establishment of a thriving, independent research center in northern New Mexico structured in the manner of an institute of higher learning, with treatment, education, and research departments and activities. This campus will include living and dining accommodations, research, laboratory, and information technology facilities, a greenhouse, library, and classrooms. Integral to our vision is a vigorous exchange program with indigenous healers and teachers, which will inform our development of new models for the study and application of plant-based psychoactive medicines.”
Llama2, thank you for your kind and insightful words, and for your concern.
at present, my key guides on the path are Green-Goddess-Salvia & the Tao-Sage of the I Ching. i am not yet planning any dive into the deep end of an heroic dose, but will reach out to you if time changes
it seems my present pendulum swings between this Salon/study/sacred medicine and Tibetan buddhist teachings. am listening deeply 3rd time to Thurman’s _book of liberation in the between_, which seems to be intro level.
in contrast, Thurman’s _jewel tree of tibet_ has an opening into ego-dissolution followed by opening into the presence of techers of light. the first tone of the 1st ‘arpeggio’ of being is gratitude for the human form; next comes the lesson of death. living the first 4 notes is a profound alteration from ordinary and opening into NOW.
just yesterday, as i began to listen to the last (6th) cassette, the player broke. so i can’t hear the last tape until the player is replaced or cds are located.
……….. yes, i do have the mckenna brothers’ _invisible landscape_ & have also listened repeatedly to what i can find by TM re I Ching. it was interesting to examine write down the 8 non-reversible hexagrams [1, 2, 27, 28, 29, 30, 61, 62] as these are not what one might expect. Cleary’s _Taoist I Ching_ illustrates the pairs.
the Sage’s voice brightens daily.
douglas adam’s Hitchhiker adventure had as “the answer” _42_
in the I ching, hexagram 42 is “increase”.
_If you see good
If you see evil
these few words may REALLY be the answer to _life, the universe, & everything_.
“the I ching, hexagram 42 is “increase”.
_If you see good
If you see evil
these few words may REALLY be the answer to _life, the universe, & everything_.”
Heartfelt thanks for your words and recommendations, Thurman’s “Jewel Tree of Tibet” is on its way to my mind, and his “Tibetian Book of the Dead” I’m rereading now.
How blessed, nobly-born, we all are here. Just 50 years earlier and these connections would be very, very hard to come by. And to have Lorenzo’s voice-gift; now there is a most-perfect voice for a guide. Now you, “Be Well”, our friend. You are in our hearts as you seek a curanando, “Tudo bem, Tudo bom.”
llama2 · 114 weeks ago
The play of energy endures
The play of energy endures
The play of energy endures
I feel sorry for this situation. Nobody deserved the abuse Timothy Leary was getting on this show. Timothy is a soldier that went to places no other has gone since.
Timothy Leary was the first person to get me to think about psychedelics (via “Politics of Ecstasy”) as a tool for better living. Like an old pair of shoes to a growing child, I grew out of some of his ideas. I still respect his role in turning me on to the possibilities and I respect the role of many others who followed for taking the baton and lifting my consciousness even higher.
Thank you Lorenzo for posting these talks! I’m sad to hear anyone would try to write this great icon out of our psychedelic history.
That interviewer seemed very ignorant and unable to open his mind to what was being propounded. He asked if the young man had ever done anything on LSD of which he might be ashamed if he had never taken LSD. He was deliberately trying to trap the young man and was using rhetoric to make his point. He clearly had his own agenda. I wonder if the interviewer has ever done anything in his life of which he might be ashamed and, if so, how can he explain himself?? The young man was simply trying to avoid the entrapment of the interviewer.
And as for his question about religion not ever causing ego-loss and psychic disturbance, I have been a psychiatric nurse for many years and am currently a psychotherapist and can safely say that I’ve probably seen more psychiatric disturbance as the direct result of religiosity than with our sacred medicines.
As for the lady who said she didn’t experience any consciousness expansion under LSD, all I can think is that not everyone is at the point in their own spirituality where they can tune in. LSD (or any other entheogen/psychedelic) is not a “cure all” for everyone. There is quite a number of people who do experience such consciousness expansion and enlightenment! No one tool or method will work for everyone. A crude hammer won’t work (at least not very well) when trying to screw in screws. Regardless, we who do find benefit and feel that we are being aided by these sacred medicines should be free to do so. We should have as much religious rights as anyone else in the standard religious institutions.
And as for being “hooked”, when something is helpful and we get something from it why wouldn’t we want to continue using it. After all, others use sacraments every week I assume because they feel they are getting something out of it (although this may not be accurate as many people probably take sacraments as a matter of habit and ritual and get nothing out of it whatsoever).
Sorry about the ranting – this interview just struck a nerve with me! The great Dr. Leary is very missed!!! We in the Tribe should continue working to TURN ON, TUNE IN, and DROP OUT!!! We need to find ways to get off the mouse wheel that maintains the economic powers of the world and continue seeking to bring consciousness expansion and enlightenment to the world!!