Podcast 457 – “The Divine Invasion”

6 Comments

1. I’m a bit surprised by some of these comments. Darren have you ever communed with Ayahuasca?

   “And what’s the point of the psychedelic divine experience when, after it’s over, the tripper finds themselves thrown back into existing in a mortal mind and body with all the disappointments and unsatisfactoriness that being human entails?”

   Well, first of all, many people take it for physical, emotional and spiritual healing and not for “tripping.” I certainly, did not take to “trip.” Second of all, after communing with Ayahuasca myself, I was given to tools to implement into my life to assist me in living in a state of Love for myself, my family, friends and humanity. Most people would agree that living in a state of Love more often would greatly help the state of humanity. It certainly is far better to live in Love even just for myself and makes life very satisfactory.

   “Also, if Rak sees divine mind states as a manifestation of unconditional love, then why does he make the experience conditional and dependent on the fact that he charges money as an entry fee at the gates of such unconditional love?”

   One of the challenges of living in this world is artificial scarcity and unfortunately, humanity has co-created it and most of the world is affected by it. There are some donation based shamans out there, but then should they also provide food, shelter, and airfare? If modern healthcare is so noble why don’t doctors work for free? People are working to make it more affordable, but it takes time, work and money. That’s the world we live in right now, but it will get better.

   “If the Psychonauts experience of unconditional divine love is so convincing and tangible for them, why are most still afraid and hesitant about the process of dying and death itself?”

   I’ve communed with Ayahuasca and I don’t consider myself a “psychonaut” and I’m not afraid of dying, but I’ve also never come close to death. I’m just not sure what you think of when you think of the “type” of person who drinks Ayahuasca though. You might see it as a drink, but I see it as a communication with an intelligent spirit that is aware of everything we are connected to, -Love/God/Spirit/Source/Existence/Singularity (whatever you want to call it).

   Jstar and Darren,
   Ayahuasca is not something everyone becomes dependent on and feel they “need” to experience the divine. There are many levels to experience the divine. It’s also not a quick fix medicine. It is without a doubt, work. Life is the true ceremony. Ceremonies can give people choices, tools and assist in raising their awareness (if they want that). Ceremonies are work, but most of the work is done in daily life by implementing those tools and living in a state of unconditional Love in a world so separated.

   The medicine is intelligent. Once you decide to commune with her and completely allow yourself to let her heal you and TUTOR you, she will meet you at the level you are at spiritually, emotionally and physically. It takes trust and a willingness to be open to the experience.

   Love and Light,
   Jonathan

2. Brilliant ! Gracias

3. Thank you.

   I found this podcast interesting and appreciated hearing Raks insights, from his perspective with plants from South America and I was unsure about the locational source of the frog ” medicine”. Anyway the two major issues that arose on my radar:

   1 )why does an Australian need to take a substance from South America to experience the divine? Surely the Original people of Australia (aboriginals ) hold their own practices or access points for humans to reconnect – why not explore this option? Isn’t one of the tenets of permaculture about working with your native local plants and bio sphere?

   2 ) There does seem to be a big market for plant medice awakening and I also agree that true sacred wisdom and teaching are priceless, literally – you do not buy sacred knowledge.

   I am not negating the viability of plant medicine, just its mass market – there is an undertone of deferring our personal souls work via a shortcut of sorts here.

   Thank you.

4. Hi Lorenzo,
   I wasn’t sure if I should post this here, but your movie tip reminded me of the fact that you (for natural reasons) mainly promote events in the US – I am one of those Europeans who tend to miss out on most, if not all, Conferences, gatherings etc you mention (and I grit my teeth every time!). BUT as it happens, the most extraordinary psychedelic Convention takes place in London next week (July 10-12) and I haven’t heard you say anything about this: http://www.breakingconvention.co.uk
   Now, this is only intended as a shout out to others who might be interested (I am not involved in organizing this whatsoever but I’m a very dedicated attendee!), including those who cannot attend, since I believe most talks will be recorded and available online.
   The speaker line-up is amazing, including a substantial share of the speakers you’ve had here in the Salon, but as you have said yourself, Lorenzo, it is not about the names, but really about the people. My experience from previous BC (there have only been two) is that it is a great place to find the others. Much peace & love.

5. yeah… I’m thinkin what Darren said. Frankly, the deal is…as I see it with psychedelics, you do go places you haven’t gone before & see things you haven’t seen before. Like Paris or the ocean…it doesn’t mean you pull up a curb and park yourself there forever.

6. Another interesting program Lorenzo, thanks.

   Rak lost me a bit when he started using the G word (God) and divinity. I usually run for the hills when I hear these words used in and effort to convince listeners of a particular point of view. Rak states that plant medicines have been preparing humans for the manifestation of heaven on Earth. How can he be certain that the “Five bar Galactic Godhead” signal isn’t simply another myth propagated by his own ego in the name of ego self aggrandizement thus potentially leading him down another dead end path?

   And what’s the point of the psychedelic divine experience when, after it’s over, the tripper finds themselves thrown back into existing in a mortal mind and body with all the disappointments and unsatisfactoriness that being human entails? Especially when the individual has to keep taking the substance in order to experience the pure divinity it seeks? It could be leading us into a dependence relationship with the substance and only adding to our existential problems and addictions. If divine being is our natural state, then why does our default state keep re-occurring when we’re not under the influence of a particular substance?

   Also, if Rak sees divine mind states as a manifestation of unconditional love, then why does he make the experience conditional and dependent on the fact that he charges money as an entry fee at the gates of such unconditional love? Why not do it for free with no strings attached in the interests of keeping it all pure and unconditional?

   If the Psychonauts experience of unconditional divine love is so convincing and tangible for them, why are most still afraid and hesitant about the process of dying and death itself? Where is their faith in returning to the pure love state where they claim the grass is always greener? Why are they still afraid?

   I’ll be checking out the movie you promoted Lorenzo nonetheless. It also sounds interesting and worth a view. Thanks, Darren 🙂

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