Podcast 459 – “Apes shouting at the monolith”


Guest speaker: Terence McKenna


[NOTE: All quotations are by Terence McKenna.]

“The most politically potent thing you can do for somebody is to educate them, to give them the facts. The facts are now so horrifying, and the means of delivering the facts so effective that there is no excuse for everyone not beginning to act in an informed manner.”

“How can we go to the place where ideas come from?”

“We are to life what life is to the inorganic realm.”

“I think psychedelics are catalysts to thought, to imagination, to understanding.”

“Our style of society is the historical equivalent of a temper tantrum. It has no viability. It’s completely self-limiting. It’s destructive. And it hands nothing on to its receivers.”


PCs – Right click, select option
Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option

From Larry to Lorenzo from Lorenzo Hagerty on Vimeo.

Posted in Consciousness, Culture, Education, Environment, Evolution, Future, Occupy, Psilocybin, Psychedelics, Shamanism, Terence McKenna (mp3).


  1. Frightening Terence mentioned that a Volvo can’t fit into every driveway on the planet with 3 and a half to four billion people.

    Now it’s something around twice that number…

  2. Too bad about the audio book being out of circuit. I recently sent you an email about this. Do you have any plans on updating the audio version any time soon?

    [COMMENT by Lorenzo: Thanks for asking, but I would have to re-record the entire book due to all of the editorial and story changes that I made for the paperback version (and the current Kindle version also).]

  3. It still says unknown error please try again when I try to save it. When I try to play it on the page it says file not found. I don’t get these errors on any of the other links. =/

    [COMMENT by Lorenzo: Thanks Jo, now I see what you mean. I found the bug and just fixed it. (At least it worked for me just now.) Again, thank you for letting me know about this problem.]

  4. Please fix this link.

    It’s broken… and I haz a sad. :'(

    [COMMENT by Lorenzo: I just now checked it, and it worked for me. However, we have been having EXTREMELY POOR service from InmotionHosting. Their tech support people screwed up and had us off line for over 40 hours. . . . Changes are being made. Thanks for sticking around.]

  5. Hey lorenzo great podcast but I have been have troubles trying to find a link to buy the audio version of the genesis generation. Any link or info on how to find it would be great

    [COMMENT by Lorenzo: I’m sorry to say that the audio version is no longer available. When I edited it for the paperback edition I made a number of changes, particularly in the final chapter. So the audio version no longer reflects the way I’d like it to be. . . . but thanks a lot for asking.]

  6. Below are some responses to what Terrence is saying in this talk

    “Ego is destroying the matrix we live within
    The planet is in a terminal crisis, . Does this have anything to do with the psychedelic experience? Is a political solution required? ”
    “Our style of society is the historical equivalent of a temper tantrum. It has no viability. It’s completely self-limiting. It’s destructive. And it hands nothing on to its receivers.”

    This understanding of the very real negative global and personal impacts of ego based consciousness is the most practical take-away message of the psychedelic experience( or similar experiences) and the effects of getting this message are the real reason for the historic outlaw of these substances. It challenges the practicality of war and warlords( political structures); it challenges our imaginary distance from the rest of nature; it challenges all forms of colonial domination and exploitation. To dissolve the very thin and narrow obsessions of self/ ego/me story as the focus of cultural and economic empowerment is to initiate a realignment with reality. But can it call forth new political patterns that can save us from the negative impacts of egoic thinking? I would argue that if it can do that on a small scale, it can do so on a larger scale. It was the norm in many non industrial non hierarchic tribal societies throughout human history. Since the 50’s 60’s we have seen radical transformations in ecological thinking, in thinking about the energy sources we use, in gender relationships, in a kind of open-source spirituality, in anti-war and pro democracy movements. All these changes seem to have been fueled in part by the mentally liberating and boundary dissolving effects of psychedelics and cross- boundary communication. But these changes also fueled a backlash of fear among those who live in unchallenged egoic patterns and fear based cultures. The political and economic stakes are very high.
    It seems to me that the possibility most terrifying to the imperialist structures of our own time is that a truly different and better model of how to live will emerge. That communities with a more enlightened non-egoic center will take center stage as an attractor, as a vision of our human future. This kind of re-imagining of the human condition with more emphasis on utopian ideals was transforming colleges in the 60s to 80s until greed and conservatism put the kibosh on it. The post ww2 flourishing of communes showed this vision as did experiments like the Cuban or Nicareuan revolution, the Costa Rican renunciation of an army, and the democratic socialist states of Europe. But the global struggles for freedom have come up against the empire of western corporate/military power and the resulting violence has discouraged the appetite for new ways of living.

    Nevertheless corporatism and war are fucking up big-time and now even the Pope is against capitalism so large changes in thinking can happen suddenly.

    “change need not be gradual”

    This is very important and may be our only hope against the prevailing forces of planetary rape. Our eco-devastation is not happening gradually. We know the truth of Terrence’s assertion that “change need not be gradual” on an individual level, and we certainly see it technologically, but we seem to refuse it as a cultural possibility. I personally have come to resent the supposed wisdom of “ change happens gradually” which is really most often an excuse for doing nothing that involves personal cost to make changes for the better now. Too many times gradual=never.

    we need to separate ourselves from the planet? move industry to space
    “We are to life what life is to the inorganic realm.”
    This is flat -out idiotic, a sci-fi fantasy that is impractical and involves a failed understanding of foreseeable technologies. Even the phrase “separate ourselves from the planet “ is a betrayal of awake states of consciousness. The value of this, as with much sic fi , is as a thought experiment. In this case to think about it practically is to see its absurdity without some kind of new clean energy source which would make the original problem disappear.

    The notion of human distance from the consciousness of other creatures is over-rated. I prefer humility to proclaiming one’s godhead. To me this is the biological equivalent of racism or sexism.

    star gazing men in dresses caused the problem?
    Mistaking maps for reality. Still mapping is part of what we humans do and were destined to learn. I personally don’t see how the heavens present a hierarchical division of power, and it’s that hierarchical pattern which is the real problem with priests, kings and patriarchies. Star gazers are just trying to figure out where the hell we are.

    answer must be rooted in experience
    “How can we go to the place where ideas come from?”

    The premise is obvious. Humans have tried every kind of power trip, ideology, and technology without much effect on the egoic delusions that shape our world. The transcendental experience is simply not universal enough to form a new vocabulary of human possibility. Psychedelics are one route but they are illegal. Mikey Siegal may be onto a key facilitator to global transformation. A non-chemical, non-religious, quickly achieveable transition to a boundary-dissolving universal consciousness could spread like wildfire across all cultural limits. One of the most promising potential uses of digital technology I have ever heard.

Comments are closed.