Guest speakers: Ralph Abraham, Terence McKenna, and Rupert Sheldrake
PROGRAM NOTES:
“I think that any models [of the psychedelic experience] that we can build, verbal, visual, or mathematical are really, really feeble compared to the experience itself.” –Ralph Abraham
“It’s the Logos-world that we’ve lost the connection with.” –Terence McKenna
“I think the difference between a representation of the [psychedelic] state and being in the state itself is the sense of meaning, engagement, and intensity.” –Rupert Sheldrake
“When language became something acoustically processed it became so bloodless that it became then the willing servant of abstraction, which before had been an exotic and little explored branch of linguistic activity, that suddenly burgeoned into the major concern of a lot of people.” –Ralph Abraham
“I regard language as some kind of project that is uncompleted as we sit here. . . . Clearly, the whole world is held together by small mouth noises, and it’s only BARELY held together by small mouth noises.” –Terence McKenna
“If you buy in to the idea that psychedelics somehow are showing you the evolutionary path yet to be followed, then it seems obvious that what it entails is a further completion of the project of language.” –Terence McKenna
“The intellectuals, unfortunately, at the top of the pyramid are the last to get the news. They’re still pouring over Locke, and Hegel when what’s really happening is Guns n Roses and Nirvana, and I don’t mean the Buddhist state of transcendence. . . . So culture tends to be ruled by the people who are the last to get the news in terms of new technologies which are reshaping the culture.” –TerenceMcKenna
“Literacy is finished. It was a phase. It’s not to be preserved by anyone other than curators. The rest of us are going to live, obviously, in a culture shaped by new forms of media.” –Terence McKenna
Download
MP3
PCs – Right click, select option
Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option
Comments from original blog page: http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/?p=289
llama2
In working towards this “future language” there was a notable jump when recently one of the posters on a thread got into the habit of posting replies along with a U-Tube video and then he dropped any written language at all and went all U-tube. Then that became his mode of communication, and he has a very large visual memory library. Somebody accused him of being AI in cognito; we all love him for bumping us up a language level. We also have the use of the smiley faces as new letters now.
We are all stumbling with describing this fluid, ever-changing psychedelic experience with static words. How many “awesome”s have we heard? A friend of mine whacks up the words by using two words together to create a new third word, and with emotional sound words to create a James Joycean lingo. With “Finnegan’s Wake” Joyce started a whole new language and he’s one of the most revered English genius writers. Using the language we now have we can only point in the direction, towards the limitless range of awareness that can expand beyond the range of our ego, our notions of space and time, beyond the differences that ususally seperate people from each other and from the world around them.
In Graham Hancocks, new book “Supernatural………..” he shows us pictures of the cave paintings made thousands of years ago and also current drawings made by people using ayahuascha to show how these cave painters may be communicating their psychedelic visions. Anthropologists always wondered why many times the cave painters drew a herd of bison right over their previous drawing of an elk when they had a whole empty cave wall to use. All this is maybe to “language” us how his visions faded in and out moving on top of each other as they do when one is psychedelicized. Or he used the rock face irregularities to suggest other shapes like a leg of an animal and then filled out the whole animal with his drawing, just like we do visually when entranced and a crack in the wall becomes a leg of a spider. That caveman was U-Tubing his meaning to us and we got it thousands of years later. He was saying, “This is the most important thing I’ve found in my world and I put it in this time-capsule cave for the people of the future”. And now finally, as the new wave of entheogenic use builds again, we, finally, get it.
thingthing
Lorenzo mentioned a joke about numbering experiences might be told later.
I think I know the joke he is talking about- substitute the institutions of your choosing.
A professor from Stanford is invited by his professor friend at Carnegie Mellon University to come to a faculty-only party at CMU. When he shows up, the conversation is very strange. The Dean of Students is talking to a few people, and says pretty loudly “47”. Everyone begins laughing. A professors wife calls back “80!” and the laughter gets even louder.
“What is going on?” asks the Stanford professor of his CMU friend.
“Oh, well, we are a pretty tight-knit community, and we realized a few years ago that we really only have about a hundred jokes collectively. So to save time and effort, we numbered them. Now we just say the numbers, everyone remembers the joke, and we all crack up.”
“And you just have a hundred?”
“Yes.”
The Stanford professor calls for everyone’s attention.
“290!” he cries.
There is silence, until the President starts laughing uproariously. Everyone else joins in. Panting with laughter, the President of the University says “Oh, that’s a new one on me!”
Lorenzo
thingthing’s joke ended: “The Stanford professor calls for everyone’s attention.
“290!” he cries.
There is silence, until the President starts laughing uproariously. Everyone else joins in. Panting with laughter, the President of the University says “Oh, that’s a new one on me!”
Mine is similar, but it’s in a prison, and the punch line (after no one laughs at “290”) is: “Some people can tell ’em and some can’t.”
so you see why i didn’t tell it 🙂
amoe
Here’s a thought I had while pondering Lorenzo’s amusement at giving numbers to experience. If I think of ‘a cup of tea’, I definitely don’t get the sensation of a cup of tea. But I definitely don’t get the sensation of an unintelligible string A-SPACE-C-U-P-SPACE-O-F-SPACE-T-E-A either – but at some time in the past, when that sentence was first said, that person would have had that sensation, or at least something close to it. So while it seems ridiculous rationalist overkill to say, ‘Whoa, I’m totally having an E190!’, in time and with far more sophistication this language would acquire meaning comparable to the intuition I get when someone says “I’d like a cup of tea”. All it takes is experience and a cultural embedding.
sancho23
I made a beginning post about Qabalah and Psychedelicism over at the forum. . .I hope more people aside from the ten or so regulars get to talking there, it’s always a good time!
As to the idea about hosting cutting edge talks at other festivals where drug use is popular, such as Bonnaroo, well that’s an amazing idea!!! A friend recently attended the Summercamp festival here in Illinois last weekend and mentioned how basically everyone there was high on something, but that most people seemed to be plain and simple recreational users and abusers, and that he found very few “enlightened” psychedelic thinkers at the whole weekend long event! Which isn’t to say they weren’t there, but if these kinds of ideas were to become popular at these events as the drugs, then that certainly would work to our advantage as a species – you know it, and I know it.
The upcoming Rothbury Festival in Michigan is doing something one step in that direction as they will have a section devoted to discussing the environment and possible solutions, with some professional scientists there to discuss ideas with the common folk! It’s a start at least.
What’s your new book about, Lorenzo?
ps
look for yet another new podcast coming up within the next month inspired by the Salon, we’re calling it: “Find The Others! w/ Cody & Sancho” and basically we’re going to attempt to present these psychedelic ideas to people not necessarily familiar with them, as well as delve into deeper things that those of us already “turned on” will be interested in. Will let ya know!
llama2
I always hesitate before posting some of my experiences that I know will cause doubt in others that haven’t had those same experiences. But that type of hesitation is no longer justified because of the historical times we live in.
A few years ago I had a dmt contact with an entitiy that in reterospect I now see had all the makings of Terrance’s machine elves. It included the jeweled jester-type head or hat as one of the common head/hat transformation, although its whole external body was changing in order to transmit communication much like the cuddlefish do, but with graphic detail added. I remember thinking that I had better keep the sounds I was making down, because if the neighbors were to hear it, it would sound extrememly odd.
What I was doing was repeating after the elf the sounds it was making because it was instucting me to repeat after it in order to learn the new “language” that had the property of not only transmitting the audible sound, but with it images that were seen on the hands and body, not like video, but like thousands of physical transformations in rapid succession that had parts of the signal meaning and when seen and heard together produced the parts of the data/idea/physical manifestation of the full signal total meaning. The noise I was trying to copy was a throat noise with my mouth totally open and a sound like a deep Tibetan chanting vibration added to a frog’s croak, but and extended croak, not broken up. The vibration caused the physical transformation of the skin and outsideness of me and the elf to create these visual signals covering us. I had the knowing that this was to create a more advanced form of communication and to be able to manifest physical things or technology through throat noises. The elf had quickly urged me into this school-lesson mode after entertaining me with its genius wit, which made me laugh very deeply.
When this occured I was not at all connecting this to Terrance’s discoveries. Because my initial visual encounter with the elves was so different than what Terrance had described that I didn’t even think of the connection to his work for a couple of weeks. My elves appeared over a small pornographic area and the elves were so small that I saw them in a different context. What occured then was a massive uplevel communications fold and then the elves were small and larger at the same time. Their bodies were always quickly morphing and looked more like a Jimmminy Cricket character with shiney parts that were displaying picture ideas/costume.
A few weeks later when I read Terrance’s discriptions, I could see that our elves were then somewhat similiar. Before that I didn’t think of my entities as elves, but as diminutive insectile comic changelings with a very intense purpose and great entertainment value. Then I remembered that recurrent jeweled head/hat that connected with jester images. From jester I added their inital weeness and my mind asked “elves?” Now I call them elves.
I’ve posted this at other times and expected that many other people would respond with similar encounters. That has not been the case at all. Noone has reported anything similar to me and some people have gone into the made-in-your-own-head rant. Which I say that I know, but when you look deeply one sees that everything is made-in-my-head, including you, when one gets down to it. But since you and my elves are both made-in-my-head, why is the elf experience less valid than my experience of you. Because I’ve used the new microscope/telescope tool called dmt, you’ll say? Would we then discount all images from telescopes and microscopes? Of course not.
There Heeeeeeerrrrreee.
Language, double-helix dna code, “in the beginning was the word, and the word was God”, Buddha’s form from emptiness/emptiness from form, Christ died to show us that spirit was what?, that body was what?, “we are created out of language”.
sancho23
Hmm, interesting experience to say the least. I’ve yet to try DMT, and I’ve personally met only one person who has and the experience he described was incredible, with a form of “outside intelligences” but it wasn’t elves.
And, the whole insectoid aspect of these intelligences takes on a new light as I’ve recently been reading Carl Jung’s book Flying Saucers. In it he examines about 6 or 7 dreams from his patients regarding UFO’s, and in one the UFO was actually a giant spider like being in the sky, and Jung said something to the effect that in her dream it was represented as a spider because the spider has no spinal nervous system, and the knowledge bubbling up in the patient was pre-spinal information, or something like that. . .ah, here’s a quote:
“Spiders, like all animals that are not warm-blooded or have no cerebro-spinal nervous system, functioning in dreams as symbols of a profoundly alien psychic world. So far as I can see, they express contents which, though active, are unable to reach consciousness; they have not yet entered the sphere of the cerebro-spinal nervous system but are as though lodged in the deeper-lying sympathetic and parasympathetic systems.”
I think this may very well bear some insight onto that connection in the DMT world, and also ties into what Pinchbeck mentioned in 2012 about how there is the theory that the
“elves” are what were once known as gnomes that process minerals in the Earth, and so they are quite unconscious within us. . .or something like that!
sancho23
As for the glossolalia, that is yet another phenomena I have not experienced. I’m interested in how children can form there own languages, especially twins. I have two children that are about three years apart, one being six months old and extremely vocal for that age, and yet they do seem to communicate on some basal level that I’m unable to achieve with them myself. Whether its just simple facial expressions or what, I don’t know, but it does seem as if they are communicating without normal words. I am curious to see if they develop some sort of same-communication patterns between themselves and I will encourage if and when I see it arising.
Man, all this talk about the jewels of altered states and it’s been about, oh, seven or so years since I’ve last “ingested”. . .I think I’m about due for a “check-up”!!!
llama2
And the communication we can experience with our dogs and cats, all without language. And then there’s the documented communication with plants in the old classic “The Secret Life of Plants”. And when I’m really conscious, I feel a brotherhood with the big rocks I’m hiking on; but then I have to wonder, on their part, if it isn’t all in there heads, being that they’re so stoned. HaHa!
sancho23
That’s funny. It’s also why I like potatoes. . .because they’re usually baked! Ha ha. . .;-)
llama2
And those degenerate eggs, I wouldn’t say it in front of them, but, oh so fried!
llama2
Geert posted this at another site:
When in consciousness there can be made a stop in human experience of time, in which information can be passed along, the knowledge of the human will be increased without physically having aged, say 15 minutes, but in that time have obtained the knowledge of the entire world history, astrology, advanced physics, math, biology, botany, neuroscience astronomy and interdimensional travel.
If the transfer of information is relocated to a point outside human consciousness, to a place where time and space don’t exist, then a lot of information can be passed along without any passing of physical seconds on a watch.
For the passing of information you have the sending party and the receiving party.
Between them is the communication that takes time and space. If both sender and receiver are in a point where no time and space exist, it means the receiver ‘is’ the sender. At that point all the knowledge has been transferred in the blink of an eye.
These are next steps in the development of consciousness, knowledge of spirit, and forms of communication through vibration. .
sancho23
I totally agree with that. It really appears to me that we have all the technology we need right in our own bodies! I can’t say I’m the most evolved, but I understand that post from personal experience albeit to a lesser degree in the amount of information processed! This seeming ability to either “go outside” of time or just to fully experience the more minute moments of time, almost as if it were a gestalt, that seems for sure to be the way of future evolution! I mean, I may have, let’s say, a mushroom experience and I’m able to have this moment where all sorts of new information comes in and much of it I’m able to internalize and integrate into normal consciousness. . .and then my son’s generation, they will have their ways to access such states and be able to process just that much more information than I was able to, and on and on and on until the most amazing things beyond our ideas now will be occurring to our descendants in who knows how far into the future! I think great changes can occur much faster with our species now, because I don’t think we’re evolving another thumb, or a third ear, we’re just learning how to use our most recent addition: the human brain. That just makes too much fucking sense, it’s too simple, to deny it’s high plausibility!!! Occam’s razor, right? I’m not to say that it’s THE way things will go down, but I mean, that just seems to be the trend.
llama2
Through the use of ayahuascha and heroic dosages of shrooms were the spirit teaches and heroic doses of morning glory seeds or LSD in combination of a ritual teaching ceramony (I use “The Psychedelic Experience, a manual based upon the Tibetian Book of the Dead” which is online free at http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_ex… read it all and use the last section “Instructions for use during a psychedelic session). The sacred medicines can give us the “meeting of the minds” in the Buddhist traditions, when body and mind separate then time and space evaporate and you experience a glympse of the truth, but in that glympse 10,000 years of teaching/download can occur as you re-live having been the universe from its first urge til now. This is the information retrieval ability that these techniques give us today and they have been put into your hands and my hands at this time in history, whether we wanted that responsibility or not. As civilization’s consumption exploads and we are headed towards literaly drowning in our own shit, we are offered a chance of truely becoming intelligent beings.