Podcast 125 – Trialogue: “Crop Circles”


Guest speakers: Rupert Sheldrake, Ralph Abraham, Terence McKenna


[NOTE: These comments were recorded on September 3, 1991, and the opinions expressed by the participants in this podcast may have changed in subsequent years.]

Rupert Sheldrake: “If it were just one (crop circle), the hoax theory would be very plausible, but a phenomenon over such a long time period, now with ones turning up in other parts of the world as well, increasing levels – 400 of them last year [1990] in different parts of Britton, this requires quite a large effort.”

Rupert Sheldrake: “The alien theory [about the formation of crop circles] is a very rare one among the theories encountered. The one I think is most popular among people who take seriously the phenomenon and think that the hoax theory is not the only possible explanation is that the spirit of the land itself, or Earth mysteries long embedded in these ancient megalithic monuments are sort of coming back to life again and somehow are being reactivated in Brittan’s hour of need, or that Gaia or the Gaian intelligence or the Gaian mind itself is involved in some ongoing dialogue or communication which principally has the effect, year by year, of attracting more and more attention. And the message year by year seems to be ‘Watch This Space’.”

Ralph Abraham: “I think we should bet on the red and we should bet on the black. Probably you are right. Probably it’s a hoax. In case it’s a hoax, probably military, all right. But just as the fanatics of this phenomenon can’t dis the hoaxes theory to zero, neither can we reduce the non-hoax theory to zero, therefore, we have to keep our eyes open in case it actually begins to say some understandable intelligence to us. We can’t dismiss it completely.”

Rupert Sheldrake: “I think this is the only rational position to adopt, namely to treat it as a natural historical phenomena, or at least a phenomenon. Let’s just say a phenomenon, to investigate it emphatically, I think, is Bacon Ian science.”

Terence McKenna: “I’m claiming that orthodoxy is defending itself against magic. It’s a war between reason and magic. … It’s a desperate struggle between rational orthodoxy and magic.”


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Crop Circle Links

1. Why real crop circles cannot be hoaxed:http://theconversation.org/booklet2.html

2. http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/ Her photos can be found here: http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/

3. Andreas Mueller’s Interview with African Shaman on Crop Formations http://www.kornkreise-forschung.de/textCredoMutwa.htm

4. Interactive site: http://www.cropcircle-archive.com/archive/index.php?language=en

5. http://swirlednews.com/index.asp

6. http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/index2.html

Crop Circle Videos

Crop Circles The Best Evidence – Part 1
(This link was broken the last time it was tested.)

Crop Circles The Best Evidence – Part 2

Unsigned Circles

Alien Signs

Star Dreams – The Crop Circle Phenomena

Julia Set

Book mentioned in this podcast

Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults by : Jacques Valle’e

Also see:

Podcast Episode 118: 21st Century Koans

Posted in Crop Circles, Ralph Abraham, Rupert Sheldrake, Terence McKenna (mp3), Trialogues and tagged , , , , .


  1. I was afraid after this Rupert was completely lost, but I read that in July 1992 (the year following this trialogue) Rupert organized a crop-circle making competition where 12 teams competed for a prize of £3,000 after which he wrote: “The experiment was conclusive. Humans could indeed make all the features of state-of-the-art crop formations at that time.”

  2. I was disappointed with Terrance dominating this extremely fascinating unsolved and ongoing mystery of our time with his theory that crop circles are a hoax perpetrated by MI5, all based on some obscure book from the 17th century that only Terrance has read. The host is obviously a very educated and well-informed man and was almost completely drowned out by Terance’s incessant argument that was nothing but a broken record for nearly 1.5 hours. Terrance’s continuous restlessness, etc. at the beginning was also distracting from the overview explanation of crop circles by the host. I wish the other men would have told Terrance if he has nothing else to contribute to the discussion, to shut up. And contrary to Terrance, crop circles do have something to communicate. Just youtube crop circles 2012 to see the extremely interesting messages, regardless of whether you believe them or not, you have to admit that the designs (our solar system planet positions based on 12-23-12, phoenix rising, etc.) are more than just mere coincidences. I would love to here the other men discuss this topic again based on the most recent crop circles. Lorenzo, please continue checking for new postings. I would love to see this section bolstered. I think it is a lot more interesting than Terrance’s other more wacky theories; not to dismiss all of Terrance’s discussions, he does have some interesting things to contribute. I just wish people like this, who are so opinionated, would not try to drown out other people’s thoughts and try to put an end to a topic that they think is not worth continue to explore. Crop circles to this day still have not been determined as a hoax. I find that alone fascinating when you consider the most recent ones in our history started over three decades ago and in just one year, 140 occurred without anyone getting caught. Even MI5 had tried to disprove them by creating a hoax on their own to try to dispel them, and were caught. And the resulting science behind these circles have yet to be replicated.

  3. Comments from original blog page: http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/?p=254

    tree wisdom
    I am surprised at the lack of comments on this Trialogue… is it because there is nothing about entheogens? I think it’s nice to mix things up once in a while. Speaking of which, it certainly was a new facet of McKenna for me to witness, one in which he hadn’t already formulated an opinion on the given subject. We get to see him develop an idea right there and then. A much more human side of him, as he sometimes comes across as larger than life. I can’t say I completely agree with his take (and this is one of the first times I have not readily embraced what he has to say), but it was an interesting theory.

    The crop formations don’t strike me as “noise”, there certainly is some logic to them, and that in itself could suggest intelligence. Just because we can’t decode them doesn’t automatically dismiss them as mindless. All languages look like random squiggles until we learn to read them. Perhaps we’re still too simple to decode them, or perhaps it has a subliminal effect as one of the above documentaries suggests.

    I’d be curious to hear more about his attitude towards paganism (to use a catch-all phrase for all the “non-rational” belief systems that McKenna seems eager to dismiss). He seemed *very* excited about the concept of the “UFO scam” being exposed and shattering those belief systems, it revealed a much more aggressive side of him that I was not aware of.

    thanks for sharing this recording!

    I agree with you, tree wisdom, this podcast really dose make Terence seem much more human. Maybe it is because this recording wasn’t originally intended for the public that he felt more at ease and could let his own intellectual prejudices out of the box for a bit.

    Over on our forum at TheGrowReport.com there is also some discussion of this fact. The general opinion can be summed up by memeticalchemy who said, “I don’t think I’ve ever been frustrated with Terence’s thought before ..but I was after listening to this podcast. ” … That is kind of how I felt, frustrated because I wanted to point him to all kinds of new information and even to what I see as some flaws in his logic. But, alas, we can only shout our frustrations out to the heavens and hope that this intriguing mystery is solved yet in our lifetimes … for it most certainly will be solved eventually :).

    LINK to GrowReport: http://www.thegrowreport.com/Forums/showthread.ph

    Lorenzo, thank you. I have been meaning to say that for some time. This Pod-Cast is an absolute gem, as most of them are. You’ve hosted some of the most enlightening moments of my life-time, and this is me thanking you for it. I will write an e-mail or a note at some point to express my true gratitude, but right now I just wanted to leave a comment to say “Thank You” because truly, I do appreciate what you’ve done. The Psychedelic Salon has brought both tribulation and clarity into my life, and I thank you for sticking to it and keeping this project in motion. So much of my inspiration comes from this little corner of the internet, and it’s strange that I don’t even remember how I stumbled here in the first place…it almost seems like the Psychedelic Salon found me. Thank you, a hundred times over!


    I have listened, dragging myself kicking and sreaming to do so. I think here Rupert reveals himself as massively gullible and Ralph is an admirable “middle-man”.

    I too wonder why MI-5 doesn’t take this seriously if it warrants it… lol, can you imagine what our air force would do with a crop circle near NORAD?

    but other than amusement, i find the breakthrough phsyics far more interesting than Crop Circles. For example, listen to Dr. Michio Kaku on the “conscious media network” and you will realize that Parallel universes, and”multi-verses” are no longer ideas but now reality. the nearest is less than

    a gnat’s whisker away from your skin!

    so let’s just have crop circles be the imprint of an alternate reality on this one and no one can argue. they’re even saying that gravity is weak – yes, you can pick up an apple against the gravity of the whole earth!- b/c most of it is in another universe at the end of a reality tunnel.

    let’s go exploring!

    blessings, :L


    Hey, i forgot an important caveat.

    many of the talks at the CMN are in the flake zone – terence wouldn’t have approved of 75+% of them! [with a few interesting exceptions like Graham Hancock]. i also feel the interviewer isn’t as skilled as Lorenzo say when he talked w/ Daniel Siebert]

    also, it is not the “home” or even “sane” refuge we find here with Lorenzo et al. Must be something about our sacred medicines that pierces through the BS, lol.

    so, it’s time to thank YOU again, Lorenzo for all your efforts in creating a sacred home space.

    blessings, :L

    the woodman
    Ok guys What are crop circles!! here’s my theory. some of the crop circles which are turning up now are so impossibly complex and symmetrical and huge its hard to believe how a few people with planks and string can create these, some of the simple ones maybe, but not the huge ones…. now i want you to cast your mind back to the last time you stood in the middle of a huge field, and try and imagine how hard it must be to create these geometric shapes.

    I believe they are created by a space based holographic laser system, some of these shapes would lend themselves perfectly as calibration designs to set up the system….look at your computer printer for example there is usually a button or series of button pushes which calibrate the print head etc. read about the BLUEBEAM PROJECT and that will explain why in the name god we would have such a system in the first place.

    The BLUE BEAM theory claims that the comet HYAKUTAKE which was discovered “suprisingly” by an “Amateur” astronomer in 1996, was a projection from this holographic laser. we have professional astronomers all over this planet how on earth could they miss something so very obvious, especially when they have all the technology and optical imaging ability than any amateur…. I found this theory interesting and wiki’d this comet, only to find out that its the first every comet discovered to have given off X-RAYS, wiki claims that this is the ionisation of solar wind on the neutral atoms of the coma of the comet, but why then doesnt hailey bopp or any other comet demonstrate a similar phenomenon?

    The blue beam project may well be conspiracy theory but alot of strange things are happening on this planet. Over population is a threat to everyones future and the people in power know this, they are threatened by it too, regardless of their wealth and status. we are entering a new era as humans, and i believe those in power are preapring a massive human cull.

    It is a scientific fact that an organism which lives in a sealed enviroment, and continues to grow will eventually poison itself. this can be proven by simple scientific experimentation. if you place bacteria in an agar plate and leave it to multiply it will continue to grow until the food source depletes, if the food source is maintained then by the very nature of biology and time the oranism will poison itself>>> peace

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