Guest speaker: Lorenzo
Essentially, today’s podcast is a series of short notes to myself, little things that I don’t want to forget”
[The following quotes are by Lorenzo]
“As my Mexican friends sometimes say, ‘If you don’t change your direction, you are going to wind up where you’re heading.’ “
” My problem, I discovered, was that there had been far too much DOING in my life and not nearly enough BE-ing.”
“I didn’t own my stuff. It owned me. … I now finally understand that nothing I possess is more precious to me than the opportunity to be able to appreciate a cool breeze on a warm summer’s day.”
“When I stopped trying to save the world I also stopped trying to save myself . .. and THAT was a big mistake.”
“Perhaps we all will have to first revolutionize our own lives, and then, on the foundations of our individual revolutions, will a new global consciousness arise.”
“It seems to me that our beliefs are what ultimately shape our personalities. So who OWNS those beliefs? If I do, then I am a freethinker, in charge of my own destiny. But if my beliefs own me, well, then the institutions that formulate and promulgate those beliefs, they own me.”
“I have finally come to grok the fact that the purpose of my life is not to reach a destination. Nor is my life a journey. No, for me at least, the purpose of life is to dance. A dance with no beginning and no end, just an endless dance.”
“Here and now. Here and now. All else is but memory and fantasy.”
TERENCE McKENNA QUOTES FROM THIS PODCAST:
[The following quotes are by Terence McKenna]
“People don’t take enough [psychedelics], that’s all.”
“When we talk about the psychedelic experience, it’s not clear we’re all talking about the same thing.”
“The way to do psychedelics is, I believe, at higher doses than most people are comfortable with, and rarely, and with great attention to set and setting.”
“The psychedelic experience is as central to understanding your humanness as having sex, or having a child, or having responsibilities, or having hopes and dreams, and yet it is illegal.”
“These boundry-dissolving hallucinogens that give you a sense of unity with your fellow man and nature are somehow forbidden. This is an outrage! It’s a sign of cultural immaturity, and the fact that we tolerate it is a sign that we are living in a society as oppressed as any society in the past.”
“Get it straight. This is about an experience. Not my experience, your experience. This is about an experience which you have, like getting laid, or going to Africa. You must do the experience, otherwise it’s just whistling past the graveyard.”
“This is part of our birthright, perhaps the most important part of our birthright. These substances will deliver. It is the confoundment of psychology and science generally, and that’s why it’s so touchy for cultural institutions, but you are not a cultural institution, you are a free and indipendent human being, and these things have your name written on them in big gold letters.
PCs – Right click, select option
Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option
MUSIC USED IN THIS PODCAST:
“Miss About You” (with vocals by Sharon), “Counting Days”, “Long Distance”
LiquidAlchemy with Queerninja … email@example.com
the sun blindness
“Anything Can Happen”
Quantum Reality by Nick Herbert
“the Zahir” by Paulo Coelho
Hi Naomi! I really appreciated your reply, which came at a wonderful time for me, and helped me to settle some issues:)
I guess i am pretty much making the effort you describe, talking about these things in a decent way with people around me.
I was worried about the chaos that i set off every time i interact with my small butterfly wing beats into the air around me, (The analogy between me and a butterfly being limited to its purely proverbial effect, hehe). I realize now that whatever i choose to do in any given situation, the potential reverberations of it are way beyond me grasp and control.
And whichever approach i choose when i talk to people about psychedelics or about how we might better the world, whether it’s with the attitude of “i’m stoned and i’m proud”, through political argument, or using stealth techniques, i make the choice on whatever basis i am capable of, and simply can’t do it any other way.
That is: i can’t worry about my choices or hesitate in making them, as worrying and hesitating are acts of choice as well… Or: i can’t go wrong in my choices. Only the way the chaos-cookie crumbles in a larger context can “go wrong” according to my short term grasp of the plan of my life, (but will then probably turn out to have some point to it anyway), and that is the only thing i can worry about, in which case worrying is the “right” choice, and should i hesitate in making a decision, then hesitation is what i am “meant to do” in such a situation. (I use the quotation marks conscientiously so as not make any claim i can’t sustain, hehe, since these ideas tend to put free will on the line and in the same time defend its importance as experience, and are hard to defend logically.)
By the way, i just listened to this podcast for the first time today:P Kinda clumsy of me writing these long comments here before having even heard the podcast, but i really got a lot out of it too in terms of connecting with Lorenzo and drinking directly from his wisdom! The McKenna bit is so full of good vibes, engaging and right on topic that it’s just perfect for introducing people to McKenna, to psychedelic society and to the Salon. And i loved that great music! Could this be the only podcast with an alternative ending? Anyway it is an outstanding and specially personal podcast by Lorenzo!
Thank you Salon! Thank you Lorenzo! (hope you really grok how deeply all we saloners feel gratitude and love for you!) and thank you so much Naomi for caring and sharing! With your help my confusion is finally receding:)
I don’t think any of your posts came across as pushy or preachy, just excited and energized!
Yes, you want to elicit a response out of the community, some sort of action or revolution. My sense about the psychedelic community is that the revolution of the 60s had significant and negative legal consequences for the community, and many of its leaders. The mass movement to try to increase consciousness and community was met with a strong resistance, and so psychedelics were burned, and had to go into hiding for many many years. Think of the angry excess of the late 70s and the severe crackdown of the 80s.
It wasn’t until the late 90s that the idea of psychedelic research being resumed was more than a wild fantasy. I think all of this has created a psychedelic community that is averse to the idea of a full cultural revolution, one the lives in fear of its failure and severe consequences.
However, I do not think this means we have to abandon hope of an enlightened society. As Lorenzo says, consciousness is changed one mind at a time. I think the greatest act we can do for the psychedelic cause is to discuss these issues with family, friends, coworkers, and associates. This gets more complicated if your company has a policy of drug testing, but it still can be done tactfully and respectfully. Very few people would think to call the cops when hearing someone advocate the merits of a hallucinogen, and I think we can be wise enough to assess those who might. As long as we are responsible and do not 1.openly sell and buy illegal substances 2. brag about possessing mass quantities of illegal substances, bringing the psychedelic experience up in conversation need not be a scary thing. We need to reject the fear and hiding that has been thrust upon us for the past 40 years, and share our experiences, studies we have found, literature we have read, and of course these wonderful podcasts! By being brave in our daily lives and sharing our knowledge with others, we will create a cultural revolution, and a lasting one.
There is some work that needs to be done to undo the stereotypes that people hold in their heads. The ideas of Hippie Culture have been ridiculed and parodied into becoming utterly impotent, so we must disassociate ourselves from these labels, and just have conversations as people, in our communities, work, church, wherever the issue may arise.
In my own life, I have been surprised to learn how many people in my life also have had psychedelic thoughts, who I would never have guessed. It is by talking about it, and bringing it into the light that we vanquish the fear that has kept it hidden in our society. Even people who did not have any psychedelic experiences seemed interested to hear about it, and many have since expressed an interested in learning more. I can proudly say to have converted a few minds so far, and perhaps planted the seeds in countless others. Moreover, I no longer feel afraid at being “outed”, or ashamed.
I see the online psychedelic community as a support system for this endeavor, a source of strength and reassurance when we may be feeling isolated and alone. I don’t feel a great need to use this online community as a means for starting an active movement beyond what we do in our daily lives to talk to friends, family, coworkers, and acquaintances about what we have learned from our experiences. The online community is here as our backbone, our support network, and confirms that there are many like-minded individuals out there, all changing human consciousness, one mind at a time.
All Love <3
Haha, i can’t believe i spent so much time writing that, when it is so obvious! (At least if i hadn’t confused it all up with my typos and norwenglish stutter)
It was a result of me going: “Aaaaahh! I love the Salon and all who are in it! We are becoming more people every day who are well informed about psychedelics… But regardless of psychedelics, a lot of people are becoming aware of many things these days, hmmm… It is not a good idea to try to convert everybody around me into advocates for the psychedelic experience, that may cause more harm than good, since it is beyond my control to cause such a change in what they identify with, i might alienate them… I should stop that!”
So i just had a minor epiphany, at least by my standards, hehe:) But reading my comment i realized it simply describes what has already been an understanding in the psychedelic community for a long time, much like when the followers of Rudolf Steiner’s anthroposophy say “we don’t preach this, people must seek it and ask us about it them selves before we open our mouths about it”. Pinchbeck represents a connecting force between anthroposophy and psychedelic society, and i am just overly eager to see more such connections and perhaps a slight dissolving of the boundaries between group identities.
So to modify the question from my previous comment:
How and why can i go wrong by “preaching” to other groups, not my group’s cause: the psychedelic experience, but my wish to connect my group with their and other groups and somewhat dissolve the boundaries between us, by pointing out things we all have in common (therefore having to describe or talk about the psychedelic society and thus “sub-preaching” its cause in a sense)?
Should i just turn my gaze inward and stop worrying?
Still love you all incredibly much though!! There is no modifying that:)
This is great! There is more activity in the comment’s field these weeks than there has been for a while in the Salon. We can’t fail to see that we are finding each other (“find the others!”) in this place! 😀 which feels like coming home, but then what is the next thing that we aught to do? I know this has been answered extensively from time to time, but here are my to cents:
I check in on the Salon daily, not only in the search for new podcasts, because I don’t expect or wish for Lorenzo to work his butt off, and there are so many podcasts that are yet to be heard or are ready for a re-listen anyway, and of course when a new podcast arrives, my heart start chirping like birds in springtime and the sun shines out of my ears from pure bliss (^-^)/ But what i look for each day are new comments from all you magnificent fellow saloners!
Just recently as i was going through earlier comments (i’m trying to read them all) i came over Fluffsta’s comments about seeing McKenna and psychedelics from a feminine view point, originally posted on podcast 146 “The Importance of Human Beings” where i later read them and found the link to her wonderful blog:
but before i read them, i heard her comments, because she recorded them and sent them to Lorenzo on his request to be part of podcast 174 “Pushing the Envelope”, hereby highly recommended!
When i visited her blog i found that Lorenzo was the only one who had visited it and left a comment before me… in over two years!
That gave me the impression that “the others” were not finding each other for a while, although they had seemed to be doing so prior in the salon from 2006 through 2009, before i found my way here.
But now it’s perhaps time again for some more concrescence to happen on the internet in various blogs and comment’s fields where we are finding the others (each other) and also web communities that may be compatible and sympathetic with the psychedelic society, where anarchist movements, gnostics and mystics, healers, environmentalists, and people who experience psi phenomena (to mention a few) could come to have more awareness of each other and what we all have in common.
We, the addressees of Lorenzo’s “be well my friends”, are potentially anyone and everyone, which is not to say that everyone must resonate with the salon, but that we who do must keep in mind that we can exclude no one from our community, as it is essentially supposed to encompass the vast variety of facets of Gayan identity.
Eventually, agreement on crucial descriptions of reality (crucial in order to overcome greed, selfishness and fear of the Other), helped by the clarity that follows from consciousness expansion of various kinds, will potentiate connectedness across all cultures and frontiers. Many people may never be able to identify with the psychedelic society, but obviously they must still be part of the solution in a sustainable world community.
We must remember, now that we are finding each other, not to dwell, but to continue connecting the dots in the universe, and by “dots” i here mean people with varying views on reality. The people who don’t get the importance of psychedelics, i. g. our mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters may very well get that our sympathies resonate with theirs on some fundamental level, IF it is the case that both parties are able to see reality with a certain degree of clarity (which is what seems to be the case more and more also outside our very “initiation-conditioned” understanding).
I realize that i formulate this more or less in imperative, but it’s just my take on it… It was really just meant to be a happy “YEAY! I love the salon and all who are in it!!”-comment, so I apologize if anyone find it tautological and a waste of reading time, but to me the question arose, and the question is open: We are finding each other (HOORAY!) now what do we do?
I love you all so much! “Be well my friends”! and be well dear Lorenzo! the most central fellow saloner of us all:)
Hello again, Lorenzo! I know this is an old podcast, so I am not sure whether you still receive notifications when a new comment is posted, but I thought this was the appropriate place to write to you.
This past weekend, I had an amazing, life changing experience with my significant other. The details are ineffable, and any words would only parse and muddle that which was felt. I am sure you understand. As we were returning from this voyage, we decided to listen to this podcast. I had already listened to it a couple weeks back, he had never heard it. We have listened to other psychedelic salons together, and talk a good deal about you as an old friend, and feel your presence in our lives. It seemed natural to share this experience with you, especially through this personal podcast that you shared with the world.
So, we plugged in our computer to our television screen, turned on the iTunes visualizer, and listened to your notes to yourself, your voice creating beautiful displays of light and color with every word you spoke. It was as if you were a luminescent rainbow colored talking flower on our screen, changing and expanding with every word you spoke. I laughed for a while at the beautiful juxtaposition, and then turned to him and said, “We have to tell Lorenzo about this! He would get a kick out of it.” Anyways, I hope that warms your heart, if you read this message, the image of us sitting there, listening to your words while watching a multifaceted electronic visualization unfold in resonant harmony with your voice.
Thank you for sharing not only your story, but also those beautiful poems. I had cried listening to you read those poems when driving in the car the first time I heard this podcast, and I cried again this weekend, tears of beauty and joy and love.
Thank you thank you thank you.
Love love love.
[COMMENT by Lorenzo: Not only did I get a kick out of hearing about your experience, it pleased me greatly. I’ve always felt a bit uneasy about that podcast, but now I’m glad that I left it up there. all LOVE, Lorenzo]
Comments from original blog page: http://www.matrixmasters.net/blogs/?p=243
Greetings from Canada. Great post. It was great just hearing you muse and share. Very grounded, down to earth. Enjoyed it very much.
Thank you for doing all this.
hey lorenzo! just to let you know, 120 and119 aren’t showing up in the pull down menu on the main page.
thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. i greatly appreciated this particular podcast! you are a wise man. iii think you qualify as a great psychedelic luminary : D
Hey this is Audio Verite from Myspace, I wrote u and let u know how much I loved your podcast even though I don’t use any of the medicines.
Just last night I went to this website and found a link about free myspace and didn’t know about all this censorship and who/how really started this monster. And now the next time I check your myspace its been censored!!! WOW Syncronocity in the worst way.
I was just gonna let u know i loved this personal podcast, I really want to hear more from you, you have a very interesting life story and your views are awesome, you’re just cool. I also loved that you recorded for your grand kids, that was very moving, made me want grandkids so I could say something like that to them. I love the end and start to your podcasts cause I find u very fascinating. You really care man, and thats awesome. I am gonna go to burning man(for the first time) and hope to meet you next year, I have never been before. But I gather since u talked about the fire we live around each other sorta, I am in north county San diego in Oceanside. You have no idea how much a effect this podcast has had on me, i am a much greater a person for hearing Terrance Mckenna’s words, they open my third eye. ANyhow bro, i was thinking of leaving Myspace anyhow, i think this is one more nudge that way.
peace and thank you
Hello, again, Lorenzo.
I haven’t had a chance to finish listening to this podcast as my Sansa died on me before I got a chance to get to the end… But I gotta say, this is probably one of my favorite Psychedelic Salon episodes yet. It’s interesting, to me at least, that the synchronicities in my life just keep piling on. The last several salons have struck a strong chord with me for some reason. That amongst other happenings in my life, but I’ll leave that for another day and another comment/post.
I had something else to say, but seem to have forgotten already, it’s almost time for bed 😉
I realized before you said it in the Salon that you don’t really have much time to reply to emails and whatnot. So, I’d like to thank you for replying to my last couple emails a couple months back, and a big thanks for reading one on the show. That really made my day. I can’t even say how much. I was in one of my bad bad dark moods for about a week leading up to that podcast and then I heard a wonderful trialogue that really got me thinking and to follow it all up, I heard you read my email, and that was just awesome. Yet another strange synchronicity that I’ve taken to heart as I walk this path I seem to have set out upon.
Thanks for reading, and thanks for putting these podcasts out. I’ll keep listening as long as you keep producing this wonderful digitized product, and when you’re done, I’ll go back and listen to it all a fourth or fifth time again.
Peace be with you, my friend. And even though we’ve never met, I feel as if you really are a good friend and yet another good shred of hope for the well-being of the world.
It really resonates with me when you say that we are always in the midst of ‘doing’ something. This is even evident in the colloquial phrase “how are you doing?”
I too like to think that I do not have to be doing anything in particular to enjoy myself – because I am a human being. Taking that message concomitantly with Terrance’s words in podcast 119, that abstractions are the death of our felt presence of our immediate experience, also resonates in my practices of Zen meditation. For me, meditation ceases abstractions and opens the doors to experience the impermanence of all things; whether that is a walk down the street with my dog, or brushing my teeth, or like you said… cooking breakfast for a friend 🙂
However, I would like to point out that I do not set aside a certain time of day to meditate. If I did that it would become an act of doing something. I meditate spontaneously, sometimes for only 10 – 20 seconds. Sometimes I meditate for minutes, once I meditated for 45 minutes without any flowing thoughts in my body. The important thing is to not separate the experience felt during meditation from that experience of everyday life. The natural state of the mind in not to be distracted and busy doing things. The natural state of the mind is to watch, listen, and feel your outer and inner universe.
One question has arisen as I write this. Much of the meditation that I have learned is from Buddhist teachings passed down over the ages. But though what I have been gathering, our culture has always been evolving and the process of evolution in one that species must die and be replaced. I wonder if the natural state of our minds has evolved so that the current natural state of being it to be a meme… a state of linguistic actualization, or a state of doing? To rephrase that, what if human doings replace human beings?